Bhavana Smith Wants to Help Women Get Paid and Promoted.
After a successful 25+ years in advertising & consulting, having reached the executive level at major companies like WPP and Accenture, Bhavana wants to share the lessons learned from her own experience and the experience of her colleagues, to help other women close their pay and promotion gap.
The idea came to her in 2018 when she was interviewing for a role and handled the compensation discussion differently than she ever had which led to a 60% increase in her base salary. In fact, she never discussed compensation at all and always accepted the offer as is. After she shared her experience with a friend who replied “Save that for me when it’s my turn” did Bhavana think to document the verbatim conversation so she could share it with other women.
It wasn’t until 2020 during the pandemic, did Bhavana start to take action. She did some research and saw a study that attributed women’s own reluctance to negotiate/ask as one of the many reasons for the pay gap. Her response to reading that was “That’s bullshit! We can fix that!” which led to the founding of Until There Are Nine.
Takeaways:
Your journey isn’t going to be linear. In fact, if you want to learn and achieve success, you may have to make some lateral moves before you move up.
Always be learning. A job should be thought of as being paid to learn. If you’re not learning something a few times a week, it may be time to make a move.
If you work to learn, take that learning and start your own business as soon as you can. Better to fail early but you’ll still learn a lot!
“Your journey isn’t going to be linear. In fact, if you want to learn and achieve success, you may have to make some lateral moves before you move up.”
– Bhavana Smith
Can you start by introducing yourself and telling us in your words, about your inspiring story?
I am an immigrant who moved to NY from India when I was nine. I was always ambitious and wanted to reach the pinnacle of whatever I decided to do.
In the 4th grade, I learned about Sandra Day O’Connor and decided I wanted to be a Supreme Court Judge. Little did I know at that time about the process. It wasn’t until high school did I pivoted into advertising. And that is the track I stayed on majoring in marketing at CUNY Baruch.
In the summer of 1996, I got an internship at a media agency. The senior director who interviewed me asked “What do you know about media?” and I said “Nothing. But I’m willing to learn.”
After my internship ended, I was fortunate to be offered a role to stay on part-time while I continued my senior year of college, and after I graduated, I got a full-time offer.
I worked on the agency side for 15 years and had a blast working on some of the best brands. I learned something almost every day until one day, I felt like I wasn’t progressing. I was tired of the “same old” conversation with clients and wanted to experience something different and more challenging.
I shifted over to a consulting role at Accenture and regretted it in the first few weeks. It was very different than what I was used to and I found the work quite boring. But I said to myself there has to be something you can learn here for at least a year so stick with it. I’m so glad I did because working there was the best learning experience that I could have ever imagined. I ended up working there for almost seven years and again, found myself having plateaued and I was restless to reach a higher level.
I was recruited to go back to the agency side for a C-suite role at WPP. It was an amazing platform and I was able to help shift the company culture and affect a lot of change. I took a sabbatical in 2020 (along with the rest of the world), started Until There Are Nine, and was recruited into another Executive role at Publicis.
I worked on Nine on the side but my job was so hectic that I didn’t give it the time it deserved. And then the universe did its thing.
For the first time in my career, I was “separated” from the company. Whatever you call it, it was a horrible experience. Especially since I had been given nothing but accolades from my boss and peers for leading work that was considered “firsts.” I had no indication this was coming and thought I was getting on a call to talk about a better title and shift in responsibilities.
It was then that I decided that I was going to grow and expand Nine.
What are the three most important habits to be a successful entrepreneur?
I don’t know what the most important habits are nor do I have any “must-haves” that I would recommend. I think you have to do what feels right for you. I always felt so guilty when I heard about CEOs who wake up at 5 am, meditate, work out, and read 5 newspapers before 7 am.
I’ve always loved to sleep and need about 8-9 hours a night and would be useless with anything less. I stopped feeling guilty when I realized that not everyone needs to do it the same way.
I will share what I’ve learned is key to being an entrepreneur:
Passion for solving the problem
Discipline to do the work
Resilience to overcome your personal fears & critical voice
If you had one piece of advice for someone just starting out, what would it be?
You’ll know you’re on the right track if you keep wanting to build on your idea and do the work even if you can’t see the end goal.
How do you prioritize self-care and well-being while managing the demands of your business?
I try to go to the gym 4-5 times a week because that gives me energy and helps to clear my mind. Sometimes the answers to the problems I’m struggling with come to me during my workout. When I was working at a company, I would have to plan the days I could go to the gym and block it on my calendar. I used to think that once all my work/chores were done, I would go work out but that never worked.
And as I mentioned before, I need lots of sleep and at least an hour of mental downtime before bed. I need to veg out and either watch TV or read.
What would you consider your biggest accomplishment and why?
Professionally, it would be launching Until There Are Nine. I’ve always had a job and a boss (or multiple) to give me projects or challenges to figure out. I’ve had a team to help solve business or client problems. I’ve always been in an environment that existed – its products, services, mission – and I had to simply react to those things.
Having to create something from scratch with no team is overwhelming. As a senior executive, I became used to delegating work but at home, my dogs don’t respond to “Hey, can you please develop a project plan by end of week?”
What challenges have you faced in the workplace, especially your experience in male-dominated environments?
Advertising is typically more female-dominated until you get to the executive level, and then it is less so. I never felt out of place because I am a woman however there were some incidents that occurred that made me wonder “Would this happen to a man?”
One was being told by a male boss before going into a meeting “Don’t ask any questions” which really struck me. That’s what I do…ask questions to learn a situation better and this particular meeting was to deal with a huge problem we were having.
Another was finding out after the fact that I was the only one who flew Economy to a conference (even though I requested Premium Economy and was denied) and that all my male peers flew Business class. This still makes my blood boil to this day.
I’m sure there are many more that I’m not even aware of. I didn’t walk the halls at work being self-conscious of the fact that I’m a woman AND Indian but for everyone else, that’s the first/only thing they saw. Either way, I didn’t let it affect me, my behavior, or my ambition.
Can you share some of the most important lessons you’ve learned from your successes and failures in business?
I love this question because that is literally the basis for Until There Are Nine. We (me and our executive Advisors) have all experienced success and failures and we want to share our lessons learned with other women to help them save years of trial and error.
A few of my own:
Always ask for a raise, promotion, a new project, or role. Don’t wait for it to be given to you.
Stakeholder management is critical if you’re working at a small or large company. Many people are involved in decisions that affect your career. Know who they are and develop relationships with them.
Own your narrative and ensure you’re communicating it louder than anyone else.
What initiatives or actions do you believe are crucial for fostering a more supportive and inclusive business environment for women?
More than anything, I believe companies need to develop, share, and implement objective criteria for deciding compensation and promotions. Every employee and their managers should know exactly which technical and leadership skills (at minimum) are considered for success in every role in an organization. As an entry-level employee, I should know mine, my manager’s, their manager’s, etc. It should be fully transparent so no one ever has to ask again “What do I need to do to get promoted?”
Every woman I have asked has experienced bias at work because the criteria are too subjective. They’re either too short or perceived to be too nice to be strong. Many women receive vague feedback or no feedback at all. How can we close the leadership gap when women aren’t being given actionable feedback?
How do you set your business apart from others in your industry?
There are many great organizations out there that are advocating for women and we all need to be collaborating, not competing. We’ve been purposeful in developing a platform that is unique in three ways:
We’re here to help women across all stages of their careers, not just executive-level or VP+ because if we want to close the pay and promotion gaps, we need to support women much earlier in their careers.
Our support spans across industries and functional roles vs. specific (Tech, Finance, etc.)
We aren’t simply talking about the problem at a macro level but also giving women the tools and personalized advice to close their personal pay and promotion gap.
Do you have a favorite quote or motto that inspires you?
One of the many RBG quotes that inspired our name – she was often asked by reporters how many women would be considered enough on the Supreme Court and she responded “When there are nine, because there have always been nine men and no one has ever questioned that.”
I guess I am back to where I started with a story on the Supreme Court!
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Melissa Stewart is the founder of SheOwnsIt.com. She is a Purveyor of Possibility, Entrepreneur Advocate and Coffee Addict. She believes that behind every successful woman is her story. What’s your story?
