In the second of a series of features looking at women in automotive, Motor Trader caught up with Kim Costello, global chief marketing officer at Pinewood.AI, and Charlotte Murray, managing director of Marketing Delivery.
“We have got to acknowledge progress. It’s getting better. We just have to keep getting better, we cannot take our foot off of the gas. The second we do, quite easily things can turn around and we can’t have that. It is every woman’s responsibility to champion women, including all the women behind them that they will never meet.”
That’s the view of Kim Costello who like Charlotte Murray, is seeing the automotive industry continue to transform in its attitudes to women. Both Costello and Murray play significant roles in leading their organisations through this transformation.
Costello made the move from professional sports in America to automotive when she joined AutoNation in 2013. AutoNation was the largest automotive retailer in the US and Costello worked on marketing, communications and operations there. Eventually, she went into dealerships.
“I spent five years in dealerships and understanding how they worked. Really understanding the intricacies of dealing with the end user,” says Costello.
“From there I took on the opportunity to be with Pendragon in February 2020, eight weeks before covid shut us down. I worked there as chief marketing officer, was promoted to Chief Marketing and chief customer officer. When we sold the automotive retail side to Lithia in the US, it formed Lithia UK. Pinewood was spun out as a publicly traded standalone company and I joined them in July as Chief Marketing Officer.”
Murray also went into dealerships in her career, quite early. With a family background in automotive, she was drawn to the motor industry.
“I was looking at different options available to me in my late teens and there wasn’t a degree I could do that would be relevant to automotive. I thought about being a technician but was actively discouraged by the careers team at college. That’s not what you would do, in the mid-to-late nineties”, says Murray.
“I went and got a job in dealership. That’s how my career began. It was a choice to work in automotive but only because I had that exposure to it previously. None of my friends were thinking about working in the automotive industry. It wasn’t an industry that you would have considered had you not had some sort of exposure or gotten into it through a softer skills route like accountancy. My parents were very supportive, and I was very lucky that I had that support. In particular from my dad because I think he probably would have recognised it wasn’t going to be an easy sector to go into at a young age.”
Representation matters
Marketing Delivery’s development team is a 50/50 split of men and women. Two of the senior developers at the company are women. Murray reflects on the progress that has been made since the days of encountering biased careers advisors.
She says: “The career advice that is being given now in the education setting is fairer and more open-minded. Going back to that point of me being discouraged by career advisors. We’ve got some really talented, highly skilled women, in areas of business that necessary wouldn’t have the ability to showcase outside of the workshop.
“I know Jacqui’s involved in a Canadian initiative called Empowering Auto which is an initiative of a similar ilk (to the Automotive 30% Club). It’s clear that it’s not just a UK thing. This is a global shift.
“The more we attract in as young as possible in their career, ultimately it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more we will see at the top. The more women that are at the top, the more attractive the sector becomes to young women in the first place because they can see that women are achieving their ambitions and success. Therefore, it will drive that desire to join the automotive sector themselves.”
Although great progress has been made there is room for improvement.
Costello says: “Every company can be doing better. That includes us. I was one of the first women in automotive to hold a C-suite position at a publicly traded company in the UK. I have a CEO Bill Berman, who I have worked with a long time back to my AutoNation days, and he is very much a ‘best person for the job’ person. We are extremely diverse for an automotive tech company, we are 30% female which is a big deal in automotive. It’s a huge deal in tech as there’s not a lot of representation women.
“We’re in the process of looking at our pay and benefits and what that looks like in terms of maternity leave and paternity leave. We are looking at how we become a more inclusive environment for all genders. I have never worked in a space that wasn’t a male dominated space. Before sports, I worked in construction. It was construction to sports to automotive to automotive tech. There’s limited females in all those spaces but I think it’s about mentoring, having those conversations, empowering women and understanding your worth and your value.”
Costello reflects on a situation which highlights the importance of women having the confidence to use their voice and ensure that they are represented.
She says: “There was a woman who ended up working for me and I wanted to promote her. She had been underpaid for so long that I had to go to the board to explain why I had to give her that much of an increase in salary because I refused to have her paid less than a man. I had the CEO back me on that. I also had a conversation with her as to ‘know your worth and make sure this never happens again for you’.”
Using your voice
Women are gaining access to various opportunities in the automotive industry, including leadership roles. What must women do once they have a seat at the table?
Costello says: “It’s not enough to just have a seat at the table, you have to have a seat at a table and you have to have a voice. I’m in a room right now that I have just stepped out of and there are 12/13 of us there and I am the only female. It’s not that I just have a seat at the table, it’s that you know I am at the table, you know I am in the room, I am contributing, learning and constantly trying to figure out what I can do so I can contribute better. Then making sure that other women see that, that they know if I can do it they can do that.”
Costello also highlights General Motors CEO Mary Barra as a woman in automotive who has demonstrated strength and resilience.
She says: “Women in automotive, there is an absolute place. If you look at Mary Barra, when she took over as CEO of General Motors, she was put in a glass cliff situation where everyone told her that the first big move she made wasn’t going to work. She then turned around and essentially said if you don’t believe me, get off my ship. She is now outrageously successful.
“She is one of the few women in any industry that not just avoided the glass cliff but completely turned that company around. I see women as leaders in every space, frankly, but especially in automotive. I think that the more diversity you can bring to any room and organisation whether that’s gender or ethnicity, the better you’re going to have because that represents your customers. The role for women in automotive is whatever we want it to be. Women deserve to have a seat everywhere. There is no reason that gender would ever stop somebody.”
Attitudes
Both Costello and Murray have shared positive perspectives about the progress made by women in the automotive industry.
The pair have also highlighted role played by men as ‘allies’ of the women in their organisations.
Murray says: “I’ve been lucky that throughout my career I’ve worked with men who have supported my ambition and given me the opportunity to develop, grow and succeed. Part of that is as much down to my own drive, work ethic and confidence. Can I hand on heart say I’ve never witnessed things that on reflection should have been called out? Of course I have. Attitudes have changed significantly and a lot of those undesirable behaviours are on decline because they are simply not acceptable in today’s workplace.
“Banter is an umbrella term, an umbrella excuse, for ‘I have done something unacceptable… but it was just banter’. Retail businesses are absolutely working to eradicate that. I think the shift has only really come in the last 10 to 15 years. Other people may say different. The men that I have worked with have always been very supportive of my desire to succeed. My ambition has been respected and therefore I have been able to develop and grow within the sector.”
Costello adds: “My biggest advocates are my male co-workers, without a question. I can tell you about the men who have supported me and championed me and told me even when I thought I couldn’t do something, that I absolutely could. They believed in me. I work with really great men. My opinion is valued and I know it. They tell me. We battle and we disagree, but positively. It has nothing to do with my gender. It has to do with the product we are talking about and how we serve our customers at the end of the day.”
However, due to stereotypes still deeply embedded in wider society, women may still feel conscious of the way they interact in the workplace. Costello highlights an article from Amy Galllo, contributing editor at Harvard Business review, who says that women actively change their verbiage due to preconceived notions of being ‘emotional’.
“Saying ‘the customer wont like this’ or ‘this isn’t good for the customer’ that could be seen as emotional when it comes from a woman,” notes Costello.
“Women have to be more articulate when they talk. For example, instead saying ‘based on the values of our company, we risk losing this customer if we don’t fix this product or if we promote this without fixing this or finding a solution’. Women still have to actively change their vocabulary as opposed to their male counterparts due to preconceived notions of being emotional and all those different things. It’s a journey.
“I think a lot of men don’t mean to do it. I think pulling somebody aside and having that honest conversation helps people realise and then maybe they don’t make that same misstep next time. I think a lot of the time it’s not people intentionally being disrespectful sometimes it’s just either learned behaviour or its not known until someone says something. There will always be little things that women have to do differently than men and I hope to God one day that’s not the case.”
Highlighting achievements
Initiatives like the Automotive 30% Club continue to inspire women throughout the motor industry.
Clubs and awards dedicated to shining a spotlight on women continue to increase the visibility of women a traditionally male dominated space.
Costello says: “I think that at the end of the day we as women have to really stand up in what we believe in and believe in ourselves. I think what holds us back is not always our visibility but our confidence. If you don’t feel 100% on something, sometimes women tend not to go forward or speak up even if they know more than anybody else in the room. I think all these initiatives, groups, and awards really help women connect with other women and think ‘ok my voice does matter, I can speak up. My opinion is valid.’ These groups are important to connect other women and understand that it’s not just you, you’re not alone, you’re not having these feelings by yourself.
“Your seat at the table, you have earned that seat. A really key part is just because you are at that table does not mean there is not room for another woman, and another woman, and another woman. We come from decades of being told there is one seat for one woman, and then women are pitted against each other. It’s changing that mindset and bringing up other women, having this amazing cascade of qualified women you surround yourself with, who are behind you, in front of you, or beside you. There’s room at the table for everybody. There’s not just one seat anymore and there’s not just two seats anymore. If we don’t believe it, nobody else at that table is going to.”
Empowering apprentices
Apprenticeships play a significant role in removing the notion of ‘gender roles’ within the workplace and removing any obstacles in the way of individuals progressing down their preferred career path.
As Murray mentioned earlier, individuals are now actively encouraged to pursue their chosen career path regardless of gender.
Murray says: “We are seeing more women in technical roles. What’s really great is they are being championed by manufacturers as well. They have development programmes and award schemes and it is really great to see female technicians being showcased in some of those.
“Every year we go back to the education setting where Molly (now project manager) came to us on her apprenticeship. We go to their careers fair to talk to people about what we do for the automotive sector. We’re not retail, we don’t have a workshop but we talk to people about marketing opportunities, technical development opportunities. The technology that we use is evolving all the time so we need to be upskilling.”
Costello shares how Pinewood makes placements appear more inviting.
She says: “That is something that we look at with placements, how is our language? When you take a look at how you are advertising roles, or talking to specialists, how do you get people exciting about coding the stuff that we need in the technology space?
“There are a lot of studies around women, the way we interpret that you have to be ‘proficient’ at this and you have to ‘excel’ at this. ‘I’m good at that, not sure I’m proficient so maybe that’s not the role for me. Maybe that’s not the company for me.’
“That verbiage cuts out a good portion of candidates because women tend to think that they have to be perfect at certain things or they read it as not being inclusive language. It’s as simple as fixing our language in the first instance when we go and talk to placements just to get them interested in our company. To show we already have women there and it’s not like they are walking into a space where they are the only female, because that can be really daunting.”
Final thoughts
Costello and Murray echo each other’s sentiments when they talk about accelerating and building on the representation that is now in place.
“My goal is always to make it better for the women who come behind me. Just a little bit easier. I am able to have my role because of the women that were here before me and I am required to do the same for the women after me. It’s not an option it’s an absolute requirement. The more women we have in positions of leadership, the better,” says Costello.
Murray says: “We’re at 28% now, some are achieving the 30%. Now is not the time to take the foot of the gas. We have made great strides. The teams behind some of these initiatives are doing a superb job of championing women and we need to embrace and continue this.”